Alliance for Patient Safety

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

I must ask a small question, Boaz. Is it connected also to the issue of suspension etc.? Do you have data about physicians or medical team members with reoccurring negligence? That is to say let's assume that if all the 11,000 files, which I don't know them —

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

Bezalel, I shall answer you with data from my tenure. I shall answer you on that.

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Then I shall complete the sentence. If these 11,000 are single 11,000 not reoccurring, then it leaves only six —

Boaz Lev:

The answer is that most of them are not reoccurring —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

But if there are reoccurring —

Boaz Lev:

There are some that do —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

And on reoccurring you are not —

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

Bezalel, I have received a complaint about a physician that until he got to me, seven years had passed and this physician had four additional accumulated complaints; a year later, two years later, four years and the last complaint of the two years. The first complaint of the earlier seven years hasn't been handled, not completed, and in the meantime he managed more. He didn't kill; it has been a matter of teeth —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

What do you say about that, Boaz?

Yael German (Yesh Atid):  A dentist.

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Don't spell names here.

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

I am not spelling names; I am only saying that due the delay he managed to make four more people miserable.

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Boaz, I think that this is a point that should be considered.

Boaz Lev:

Certainly, I am ready —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

If there are 11,000 complaints, I am not worried that there are only six suspensions, because maybe there are only six that really had to be suspended.

Amiad Taub:

A person that committed forgery and was caught —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

No, Amiad. But I don't know what 11,000 complaints mean.

Amiad Taub:

No, but he has intelligence —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

If there are 11,000 complaints on forgery, you are right; but apparently this is not the situation.

Amiad Taub:

These are complaints about cases

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

One more time, it should be understood what these 11,000 complaints are. I'll tell you, in the police there are much lesser statistics; do you know the number of the complaints to the police that develop fully to —

Amiad Taub:

Bezalel, these are 11,000 cases that were reported. How many cases —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

No, no, it is not —

Amiad Taub:

— They told us that the person died without anything that happened. This is exactly the statistics, it is the Heinrich model; it says that if there were 11,000 and something —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Not certain that it is correct.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Thanks, Amiad. Bezalel, would you like to add anything?

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

I will be glad if only Boaz will provide an answer. In reoccurring cases, here I say —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Ok, thanks. Please.

Boaz Lev:

The answer is that there are few reoccurring cases. When we know about a reoccurring case we take action. Concerning dentists, in the commission they are not handled at all. There is a body that handles dentists. I am looking at each case relating to this issue; not in order, not right. Has everything been in order? No.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

What should be done, Boaz? What should be done when there is a physician with reoccurring complaints?

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

You are getting a third complaint about negligence which really put person's life at risk. There is an intermediate situation here; it is necessary here to give —

Boaz Lev:

Guys, when I receive the first complaint about something, about behavior that could risk, I'll do every effort, and I wish that I could succeed in it, to really stop, as you say, immediately his activity, until it turns out —Amiad Taub:

So why in our case you didn't do it? The prosecution thinks —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

 No, but, Amiad —

Boaz Lev:

I cannot speak about —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Amiad —

Amiad Taub:

Is it not legitimate to ask it? To suspend —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Is anybody here with a case from the last year and half?

Call:

Yes.

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

I think it is important. I don't know whether to speak about a specific case —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Bezalel, moment.

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Sorry, I am not managing the discussion.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Listen. I have requested at the beginning of the discussion, in a really frank way, and out of fairness manner; indeed, we do not know all the facts, the medical file of everyone; it is an unfair discussion. The purpose of this discussion, as I see it, is to try and resolve the problems from here and from now on and create legislation, or an outline in which there is provision of an answer looking into the future. I do not think that it is appropriate that we should sit here — you know, the families will come, and really, I do feel your pain; it is a frank and true; it does not seem appropriate to me, because it is  clear that I shall say that it is not normal; however, since I don't know all the facts and since we will not open any medical files here, because there is the issue of the right of privacy, before and after, then it is irrelevant. Individual cases, there is a way to clarify them, but this is exactly what we are trying to do here, to find the best way so that you too will feel that all this is not in vain, at least to get out with something.

Amiad Taub :

We arrived here indeed for the future injured; to us it doesn't make a difference anymore.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Fine; but, Amiad, we will not reach the outline if we will spend this discussion on the place that as far as you are concerned is really the most important —

Amiad Taub:

No, it is not the most important.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

And I understand this, Amiad.

Amiad Taub:

Most important is that there will be a strong commission that will prevent the future cases.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Then we are completely on the same page.

Amiad Taub:

Right.

Boaz Lev:

We all agree on this.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Boaz, do you want to reply?

Boaz Lev:

No, I agree. I think that there should be a strong commission that could cope with immunity and —

Amiad Taub:

And independent.

Boaz Lev:

I agree one hundred percent.

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

I want to say another word; I want to ask Boaz. I have indeed asked him privately because I have met him few days ago. In every system, and if we are talking about the military system, also in cases where things really stay confidential; in cases of training accidents there is an instruction not to promote the commander. A commander that caused the death of a soldier due negligence, because he didn't follow-up the safety instructions, he is not promoted in the chain of command. Here I didn't see, even a single case of a physician that you, that the Office ruled that he is responsible, that really his promotion was prevented.

Boaz Lev:

Thanks. This is the power that we are requesting for ourselves. This is what I have told you; it is very important that we have the power t — today we don't have this power. it is in our power to acquit or transfer a complaint to the complaint process. You are right. Many times what we do, we approach the institution’s director either officially or unofficially and say "discontinue this person’s work, administratively, do us a favor, because we think that he is imposing a risk," but we do not have this power, and we want this power. Amiad is right —

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

It is irrational. It is something t —

Bezalel Smotrich (Habait Hayehudi):

Right; will they have it in the law now? Will you have the power in your law?