Alliance for Patient Safety

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Thanks a lot. I want to apply again to Dr. Lev. Is there a forecast when is this law proposal is intended to arrive?

Boaz Lev:

Yes, the law proposal is ready and in my opinion in the up – coming days it will be issued as a memorandum.

The chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Will a memorandum be issued in the coming days?

Boaz Lev:

Could be that following this discussion, in which I learned a lot and heard a lot, that we will introduce into it few changes in order to answer part of the issues raised, some of which were very appropriate.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Then I shall ask, following today's discussion, to consider the forthcoming matters; I think that one of the things that can be learned from other systems. Could be, and this I am saying, to consider that there will be a dual system, one within the Ministry of Health ,which investigates internally and its objective is the principles and learning, and the other that is individual, for individual complaints. I also completely understand the need of the complainers or those acting on their behalf or their families to get receive justice in their stories, and that not everything will be concentrated within the Ministry of Health.

I'll say the next thing. The Ministry of Health could be holier than the Pope, and still in the public perception of things there is importance to it that a person feels that he is coping, as a person, versus a body that is completely neutral. It could be that this conflict of interests is in our heads alone, as I am learning from this discussion; there were times that it had been less in our heads. You too, Dr. Lev, understand the issues. It is one point that I should be glad if you consider and we shall be glad to arrange a discourse on this subject.

Knesset Member Smotrich said it, and Knesset Member German is sitting here, whether we do or don't have an uncontrollable urge to submit private and unnecessary law proposals; but we want to know where things stand from the point of view of the Ministry of Health in order to plan ahead our steps. This is one point I would like to make.

The second point I would like to make is the issue of updating the complainers. There is something in that when a public system receives a complaint; it is true that the case is being checked and it is true that not always it is possible to update at every stage, and I don't expect that once a week they will pick up a phone and say "do you hear?, we met with, we spoke with", but that there will be logical time spans, in which a discourse with the family does take place. Part of the issue of a conflict is lack of understanding, or alternately some kind of recognition which could be totally subjective, of nobody is considering me. When I feel that nobody is considering me, the first thing I feel, is that I am very very angry and hurt. Could be that you do an excellent job while at it, but, I don't know about it; I was taught that, when someone does an excellent job at home and he is not updating me, then I don’t know about it, as I don't have telepathic skills and I assume that no one present here has either.

As for the internal debriefing; the internal debriefing is super important and I think that the implementation of the recommendations of the internal debriefing is the first thing that is leading here many people who spoke their mind, although they came out of their private story. This is the basic A, B, C in my view. I have no problem; if it will make your work more efficient I don't think that it should be taken out, and upon the condition that there will be an external separate system that handles the individual applications.

These are my words. Knesset Member German, do you want to add points for reference?

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

I think that we have heard here only the tip of the iceberg, regrettably. I have forgotten to say that I have asked for a study by the Research & Information Center from whom I have requested to get the data. I believe that I have asked this for the last five or ten years, because in my estimate what we are hearing here is really the tip of the iceberg, not due to the fault of the people sitting here. I believe that under absolutely no circumstances it should be left in the Ministry of Health, simply must not. There is no hindrance, and I join the position of Bezalel, that we must immediately draw the lessons and prevent the next accident and the next negligence from happening. But it doesn't preclude it; these are two parallel things, and one doesn't exclude the other.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Right.

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

There should be a committee in every hospital that the Ministry of Health will be responsible for and that immediately and in parallel, will do everything in its powers that that no director or physician who was responsible for the accident will be promoted, and if necessary also will also be punished.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

I have finished.

Amiad Taub:

But it is impossible. Half an hour we are talking; I have spoken for two minutes, and every second I was interrupted. At the end you are finishing this discussion that the Ministry of Health will promote a law that will increase its power, without you.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Amiad, no; what is it without us?

Amiad Taub:

Without you; he said that he is submitting the law proposal next week.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

No, he is submitting a memorandum. I'll explain. A memorandum is a version that the Office is satisfied with and —

Amiad Taub:

Is it not placing a law proposal on the Knesset table?

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

No, it is to be submitted next to the public's comments. The public is you too.

Yael German (Yesh Atid):

Exactly, and you could respond, and we will too.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

The public is you too the Knesset Members and all of you. This exactly will be the place. As I have said at the beginning of the discussion I am very much in line with this. It’s not about us, or without us. This is the place where you enter the picture, and it is important; we have this process for a reason and this is it.

Amiad Taub:

Excellent.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

I would like to thank all those present.

Boaz Lev:

With your permission, I would like also to invite you to a discourse with me.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Why not? Good idea!

Amiad Taub:

Please pick up your phone, make us coffee and with pleasure.

The Chairperson, Karin Elharar:

Thanks a lot to all of you. The session is adjourned.

The session was adjourned at 13:45.